Customer Owned Cylinders FAQ
We take customer owned cylinders very seriously, because we know that cylinders are an investment. An investment that if properly cared for will provide many years of value.
I have cylinders that belong to another person or company, can you fill them for me?
I have cylinders, or have seen abandoned cylinders, that are:
- embossed with "PAUL CARROLL, ABILENE TEXAS" on the neck ring;
- stamped "PAUL CARROLL, ABILENE TEXAS" on the neck ring;
- stamped "CARROLL WELDING SUPPLY" on the neck ring;
- stamped "CWS" on the neck ring;
- stamped "PAUL CARROLL, ABILENE TEXAS" on the cylinder shoulder;
- stamped "CARROLL WELDING SUPPLY" on the cylinder shoulder;
- stamped "CWS" on the cylinder shoulder;
- stamped "PCWS" on the cylinder shoulder
Who owns them?
What is the Code of Federal Regulations Part 49 (49CFR), and why is it important to me?
Why does it take a minimum of 8 days to have certain gases filled in my cylinders?
What gases have to be sent off site?
Why can't you fill acetylene as quickly as you do oxygen?
I have cylinders that belong to another person or company, can you fill them for me?
Maybe. If the cylinders belong to someone you know and we are able to contact them and receive permission then we may fill them. If the cylinders belong to another gas distributor it is unlikely that they will grant Carroll Welding Supply permission to fill the cylinders, especially if they are one of the large national or regional distributors. Other independents not in our area will usually allow us to fill them, but we are required to get their consent. The Code of Federal Regulations 49CFR addresses this as follows:
173.301 (e) Ownership of cylinder. A cylinder filled with a hazardous material may not be offered for transportation unless it was filled by the owner of the cylinder or with the owner's consent.
I have cylinders, or have seen abandoned cylinders, that are:
- embossed with "PAUL CARROLL, ABILENE TEXAS" on the neck ring;
- stamped "PAUL CARROLL, ABILENE TEXAS" on the neck ring;
- stamped "CARROLL WELDING SUPPLY" on the neck ring;
- stamped "CWS" on the neck ring;
- stamped "PAUL CARROLL, ABILENE TEXAS" on the cylinder shoulder;
- stamped "CARROLL WELDING SUPPLY" on the cylinder shoulder;
- stamped "CWS" on the cylinder shoulder;
- stamped "PCWS" on the cylinder shoulder
Who owns them?
Paul Carroll Welding Supply, Inc. All cylinders embossed or stamped with our name, or initials are owned by us. There are exceptions and those cylinders are well documented. Cylinders that are not documented as "customer owned" are in our rental pool. We do not sell cylinders with PAUL CARROLL, ABILENE, TEXAS on the neck rings. If you bring us a cylinder that has our name on it, and you do not have an account with us, or proper paperwork showing ownership we will ask you to surrender it to us. If you know of abandoned or stolen cylinders with our name on them you may be entitled to a finders fee. Please let us know about them.
I purchased cylinders at an auction that have a company name embossed on the neck ring, can you fill them for me?
No. Usually in this case the cylinder should not have been sold at auction. The company must have gone out of business, and not acquired by another company. We will make every effort to identify a cylinders true ownership and origin. If it turns out that the company is defunct, then we can fill the cylinder. If the company was acquired by another company you likely can't do anything with the cylinder.
I purchased cylinders at an auction that have a government agency embossed on the neck ring, can you fill them for me?
Usually, Yes. The government is always selling surplus at auction. You should bring us a copy of the bill of sale to put on file.
I have cylinders that were on my property when I purchased it from the previous owner, don't I own the cylinders now?
Maybe. If the previous landowner purchased them and has the original bill of sale which they can transfer to you then yes. If no documentation exists, then probably not. your best bet is to bring them to the store for us to make a determination.
I own my own cylinders, I had taken them to another gas distributor. They could not fill my cylinders while I waited and told me to take theirs instead. So don't I own their cylinders now?
No. You now have someone else's cylinders in your possession, and they have yours. You can't get them filled because it is in violation of DOT regulations. You will either need to get them to return your cylinders to you, or you will need to get them to give you a bill of sale that will match the cylinders you have in your possession.
Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware
This can be a very tricky situation. There are distributors that will take in your empty cylinders, and offer you theirs full of gas. This idea may appeal to you since you don't have to wait. You expect the distributor to have your cylinders ready for you when you return theirs. Typically when you have used all of the gas, which you paid for, in their cylinder. However, when you return to the store they can't locate your cylinders. They may tell you to just keep theirs as if they were yours, that they will just keep swapping with you. This is great for them because they still own the cylinders, and only they can fill them. You have lost your cylinders, and are now locked in to this distributor. If such a situation occurs you should:
- Make sure you have a receipt showing that you dropped off YOUR cylinders for filling.
- When they can't produce YOUR cylinders INSIST that they provide you with a bill of sale for the "replacement" cylinders that they have provided for you. You are then free to have the YOUR cylinders filled at the distributor of your choice.
Carroll Welding Supply does not swap your cylinders for our cylinders. We are happy to fill cylinders where the proof of ownership is clear, but we also know that there are instances where you can't wait. We will encourage you to rent our cylinders by the month in this case. With Carroll Welding Supply's $6 per month cylinder rental, you have peace of mind that YOUR ownership is protected. If you return the rentals within the month, then no rent is charged.
I have been told that my cylinder appears to have a defect, and that it must be repaired and retested prior to filling. Can't you go ahead and fill it, it has been fine before now?
No. We can't fill it for you without a test. Not only is it in violation of DOT regulations, but a cylinder in an unknown state would present a hazard to the fill plant operator. The Code of Federal Regulations 49CFR addresses this as follows:
173.301 (a)(2) A cylinder must be filled in accordance with this part. Before each filling of a cylinder, the person filling the cylinder must visually inspect the outside of the cylinder. A cylinder that has a crack or leak, is bulged, has a defective valve or a leaking or defective pressure relief device, or bears evidence of physical abuse, fire or heat damage, or detrimental rusting or corrosion, may not be filled and offered for transportation. A cylinder may be repaired and re-qualified only as prescribed in subpart C of part 180 of this subchapter.
I have been told that my cylinder needs re-testing, or a hydrostatic test, and cannot be filled until a test has been completed, but I need the gas now and can't wait for a test. Can't you go ahead and fill it, it has been fine before now?
No. We can't fill it for you without a test. Not only is it in violation of DOT regulations, but a cylinder that has not been re-qualified periodically is more apt to have damage that would present a hazard to the fill plant operator. The Code of Federal Regulations 49CFR addresses this as follows:
173.301(a)(6) No person may fill a cylinder overdue for periodic requalification with a hazardous material and then offer it for transportation. The prohibition against offering a cylinder for transportation that is overdue for periodic requalification does not apply to a cylinder filled prior to the requalification due date.
What is the Code of Federal Regulations Part 49 (49CFR), and why is it important to me?
The Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) is the codification of the general and permanent rules published in the Federal Register by the executive departments and agencies of the Federal Government. It is divided into 50 titles that represent broad areas subject to Federal regulation. Part 49 is the title that governs transportation and the transportation of hazardous materials.
Why does it take a minimum of 8 days to have certain gases filled in my cylinders?
All of our gases that are filled off site are loaded for shipment each Tuesday afternoon. Early each Wednesday morning they are taken to the fill plants where they are processed over the course of the next week. The truck returns late Wednesday afternoon with cylinders that were taken in the previous week. This schedule is followed each week unless there is a holiday that closes the fill plant on Friday, or something unforeseen occurs causing us to make the trip earlier.
What gases have to be sent off site?
Acetylene, Breathing Air, Compressed Air, Nitrogen in larger sizes, and Specialty Gases in any size cylinder.
Why can't acetylene be filled as quickly as oxygen?
It takes about 7 hours to fill an acetylene cylinder because the gas has to settle and dissolve into the acetone.